艾问人物中的艾诚：艾诚十问千聊朱峻修

艾问人物中的艾诚：艾诚十问千聊朱峻修Like every lucrative opportunity the paid knowledge sharing sector has gone through the initial expansion period. Now the market has become chaotic where bad money has driven out good. But it is undeniable that the potential of the paid knowledge sharing market is still huge. Based on statistics the market size of the domestic paid knowledge sharing industry is about RMB 4.91 billion yuan in 201

本文章刊登在CHINA DAILY-艾问专栏

三年前，知识付费像一座金矿，知乎推出知乎Live，果壳上线分答，罗辑思维公众号打造了当年的爆款产品《李翔商业内参》，喜马拉雅开启了国内首个内容消费节“123知识狂欢节”。三个月后，京东推出以图书为载体的付费问答“京答”，豆瓣时间上线付费专栏。到了2017年6月，今日头条重金孵化“悟空问答”，豪夺知识付费大V。

Three years ago the paid knowledge sharing sector was like a gold mine. Zhihu released Zhihu Live; Guokr started "Fenda"; Luogic Talkshow public account promoted a hit column "Lixiang Reference of Business Inside"; Ximalaya FM launched the first content consumption celebration named "123 Knowledge Carnival" in China; three months later JD.com initiated a paid Q&A section "Jingda" with books as a platform; Douban Time introduced a paid column. By June 2017 Toutiao invested heavily in incubating "Wukong Q&A" and gathering paid knowledge sharing influencers.

三年后，知识付费是一团火海，稍有不慎就灰飞烟灭。分答率先掉队，无奈转型并更名为“在行一点”，罗振宇的跨年演讲被指贩卖焦虑似传销，“新世相营销课”涉嫌违规被封，咪蒙因内容问题注销账号……

Three years later the paid knowledge sharing sector has become a land of lava where a slight carelessness could destroy a business. Fenda hit the wall first and had no choice but to transform and rename as "Zaihang". The speech delivered by Zhenyu Luo on the New Year's Eve was alleged of spreading anxiety like pyramid schemes. New World Marketing Class got blocked due to suspicion of violating regulations; Mi Meng deleted its account due to content issues……

同每个风口一样，知识付费已经度过了最初的红利期，市场变得鱼龙混杂，劣币驱逐良币。但不可否认的是，知识付费市场的潜力依然巨大。据统计，2017年国内知识付费行业市场规模约49.1亿元，预计至2020年规模将达到235亿元，2018年内容付费用户规模预计将达2.92亿人，消费者还在，只是我们开始冷静下来，为更高品质的知识买单。

Like every lucrative opportunity the paid knowledge sharing sector has gone through the initial expansion period. Now the market has become chaotic where bad money has driven out good. But it is undeniable that the potential of the paid knowledge sharing market is still huge. Based on statistics the market size of the domestic paid knowledge sharing industry is about RMB 4.91 billion yuan in 2017. It is estimated that it will reach RMB 23.5 billion yuan by 2020. The number of paid users in 2018 was expected to reach 292 million. Consumers still exist but they are beginning to calm down and pay for higher quality knowledge.

千聊创始人兼CEO朱峻修更是直言，知识付费正处在萌芽期，以后会开始逐渐往成熟或者发展期的拐点升级。

Junxiu Zhu Founder and CEO of Qianliao confidently stated that the paid knowledge sharing industry is in its infancy and will gradually rise to the turning point and enter the mature or development cycle.

产品经理出身的朱峻修，已经拿到了腾讯超千万的A 轮追加投资。据朱峻修透露，经过三年的沉淀，千聊目前年交易额超八亿，平台注册讲师达120万。

Junxiu Zhu a former product manager has already received an additional A round investment from Tencent. According to Junxiu Zhu after three years of development Qianliao's current annual transaction volume exceeded RMB 800 million yuan and the number of registered lecturers on the platform reached 1.2 million.

本期《艾问·顶级人物》，艾问创始人艾诚十问朱峻修，聊聊知识付费那点事儿。

In this issue of "iAsk Top Leaders" iAsk Founder Gloria Ai asked Junxiu Zhu ten questions about the paid knowledge sharing platform.

01

艾诚：2016年被称为是知识付费的元年，我们看到有得到、喜马拉雅、分答等等，千聊是一个后来居上者，你为什么要创办千聊？

Gloria Ai: The year 2016 is regarded as the first prime year of the emergence of paid knowledge. There were iGet Ximalaya Fenda etc. Qianliao was a latecomer. What prompted you to start Qianliao?

朱峻修：我们是2016年3月份成立的，但是我们当时完全不知道得到，只是后面有一天，包括分答出来，才知道原来还有很多人都在干这个事。千聊其实最核心的还是因为我做了很多年社区产品，我发现社区的内容特别零碎，觉得当时有很多优秀的内容达人，甚至还谈不上创作者，我们觉得如果他们可以出深度的内容，让消费者来支付的话，有没有可能性？这真的是用产品经理的直觉来看，因为16年的一个典型现状是我觉得消费者的碎片化时间达到了一个巅峰。

Junxiu Zhu: Our company was established in March 2016 but we didn't know about iGet at the time. Later on when Fenda was launched we realized that there were plenty of people working on this. As for the core value of Qianliao I had years of experience in community products. I realized that the content of the community was particularly fragmented. There were a lot of outstanding content bloggers not even creators. I thought to myself if it is possible for them to publish something more in-depth and be paid for the content. It was purely a thought based on my business acumen as a product manager because it was typical in 2016 that the fragmented spare time of consumers reached a peak.

02

艾诚：知识付费火，但知识付费是不是一个伪需求？

Gloria Ai: Paid knowledge has been a hit but is it an artificial demand?

朱峻修：我肯定是不认为是伪需求。举例子，比如我们最近上线的一门护眼课，给孩子妈妈学，帮助孩子来预防近视眼，中国现在有七亿人有近视的问题。

Junxiu Zhu: I definitely don't think it is an artificial demand. For example we have recently launched an eye-care class for mothers to help children prevent myopia. There are now 700 million people nearsighted in China.

03

艾诚：有人说知识付费是在贩卖焦虑，你觉得它的本质是不是贩卖焦虑？

Gloria Ai: Some people claim that paid knowledge is in essence spreading anxiety. Do you agree?

朱峻修：如果是贩卖焦虑就没那么多产品了。我认为本质讲大一点，是提供可以解决问题的信息。因为知识一定要能被人吸收，最终产生效果。解决问题，当然就是能够被吸收且产生变化的这种行为。消费者是能够从知识里面直接获取价值的，能够感受到学和不学的区别。

Junxiu Zhu: If we're really trying to spread anxiety we won't be able to create this many products. As for its essence it provides information that can solve problems because knowledge needs to be absorbed to take effect. Problem-solving is a behavior where knowledge can be absorbed and produce results. Consumers are able to directly obtain value from knowledge and can feel the difference between learning and not learning.

04

艾诚：我本人在千聊上也有一门课，叫《14门财智人生课》，其实这是对我来讲是一个惊喜的作品和一个产品。因为在以前我们传统做媒体内容的时候很多是精英思维，但千聊让我考虑说普通用户，真正有需求的用户到底什么跟他有关，什么对他有用，这也催生了一批大众精英和平民网红，他们是谁？

Gloria Ai: I personally also have a course on Qianliao called 14 Lessons on the Wisdom of Fortune. In fact it is a surprising piece and product for me. Traditionally we tended to think from an elite perspective when we produced content but Qianliao inspired me to ponder on the need of ordinary users what's relevant to them and what can help them. This has also spawned a group of mass elites and ordinary internet celebrities. Who are they?

朱峻修：我们秉承的是“三人行，必有我师”。千聊是一个特别朴实化的一个分享工具，聚拢各行各业的专业的从业者。还是举例子，我们最近还上了一个课程是关于内分泌的，因为我们研究确实发现女性很多身体上的问题跟内分泌有很强的关系，然后我们就找到北京妇产科医院一个从事了将近20年内分泌研究的老师。在以前没有知识服务，没有桥梁的时候他可能通过手术，通过问诊服务，一辈子服务1万个人不得了了。但通过知识服务，他也许可以服务10万，100万甚至是更多。

Junxiu Zhu: We always uphold the belief of "Two heads are always better than one". Qianliao is a particularly simple sharing tool that brings together professional practitioners from all walks of life. For example we recently initiated a course about endocrine since our research shows that a lot of physical problems women suffer from are strongly correlated with endocrine. Then we reached out to an expert from Beijing Obstetrics and Gynecology Hospital who has nearly 20 years of research experience on endocrine. Back in the days without knowledge sharing services it would be impressive for him to serve 10 000 people for his whole life through surgeries or consultation services. Yet through knowledge sharing platform he might be able to serve 100 000 or even 1 million people and more.

05

艾诚：有人把这样的方式总结成“知识 互联网 IP包装”，你能否给我们分享一下背后的方法论？怎么打造一款爆品？

Gloria Ai: Some people have summarized this pattern as "Knowledge Internet IP Promotion". Can you share with us the methodology behind it? How to create a hit product?

朱峻修：两个特点，第一个就是这个事情确实是消费者驱动的。原来为什么没发生，跟移动互联网的技术有很大关系，知识分享者和消费者一个有输出，一个有需求，但以前没办法匹配，移动互联网至少让每个人先在线。第二个是有了支付以后，桥梁就有了。这是一个信任关系，有些老师不一定说赚到钱，但是你买了单，那就说明你有需求，是真实的有这个需求。

Junxiu Zhu: Two features. Firstly it is indeed consumer driven. The reason why it didn’t happen early was because of the technological capability of the mobile internet. Between knowledge sharers and consumers supply and demand can be matched. But it could not be done before. Mobile internet at least enables everyone to go online. Secondly payment builds up a bridge. This is a mutual trust relationship. Some tutors might not actually earn much money from it but if you pay for it that means you have the need which is real.

我觉得最理想的时候就是消费者培养了很多好的知识付费习惯以后，会自动地锁定他想要听谁、想听什么内容。我们常讲一个词叫信用化，有点像电商领域，比如说淘宝的天猫，可能五颗星到多少，大家下单的决策相对就比较快。

I think the most ideal scenario is when consumers have cultivated a good habit to pay for knowledge they will automatically lock in whose course or what kind of content they would like to listen to. This is what we call credit. It’s kind of like e-Commerce such as Tmall on Taobao where consumers can make faster decisions based on the 5-star ratings.

06

艾诚：这个领域有喜马拉雅，有得到，有凯叔，有分答，凭什么千聊可以活下去，而且可以活得更好？

Gloria Ai: There's Ximalaya iGet Kaishu Fenda etc. in this sector. What enables Qianliao to survive and surpass them?

朱峻修：首先我作为一个创业者，不可能是因为因为害怕失败就不去做事情。所有公司都有死的那一天，产品也会有死的那一天，那些都是它的生命周期。我其实没有太去把竞争当做千聊要去考虑的问题，我们还是考虑它的终极问题，千聊的用户，这是第一个。

Junxiu Zhu: First of all as an entrepreneur I can't stay put due to fear of failure. Each company has its own lifetime so do products. This is their life cycle. I don't pay too much attention to competition. What we care about is its core Qianliao's users who are always our priority.

第二个，就是说我觉得和同行相比，我觉得太极法则，一阴一阳，它有它的优势，就一定有它的劣势，所以对于千聊的生存之道来讲，要能够找到市场空间里的不足之处。至于怎么做到，得到有得到的模式，千聊有千聊的模式，其它平台有其他平台的模式，这个是殊途同归的。总结来说，一要找到我们的差异化，二要能够去学习对手的优点，然后用不同的模式去实现这个目标。

secondly regarding the competition with peers just like the Taiji rule where there’s yin and yang each company has its own advantage and disadvantage. For Qianliao to survive we need to find the weak spot in this market. In terms of how to realize it iGet has its own pattern so do Qianliao and other platforms. We're just reaching goals via difference means. In a word we need to firstly realize our differences and secondly learn from the opponent their advantages and then materialize the goal with a different pattern.

07

艾诚：对于有兴趣在这个领域创业的朋友，你有什么建议？

Gloria Ai: What advice do you have for those who are interested in starting a business in this field?

朱峻修：第一个思考点，一定是用户需求，再到我要做什么内容，请什么老师，再到我用什么形态来展示，其实我觉得最核心是要把用户的需求和它的内容体系。

Junxiu Zhu: The starting point must be the user's needs followed by content tutors and forms of presentation. I think the core is the user's needs and its content structure.

这是我觉得唯一能够支持自己长期去干的事情，因为其他的东西都是阶段性的。我在阿里腾讯都待过，有一个深刻的感受，互联网很透明，透明的机制上你如果不能够做到这个，那你就是死。所以这不是一个道德的东西，它是一个基本的生存法。对于一个创业者来讲，这可能是你唯一能把控的，就是你的消费者价值做得好，如果这个失去了，可能什么都没了。

This is the only cause that I feel I can dedicate myself to for a long term because everything else is temporary. I have worked at Alibaba and Tencent before. I felt first-hand that the internet industry is very transparent. If you can't deliver a certain goal on such a transparent mechanism you're doomed to fail. Thus this is not about morality; it's a basic way to survive. For an entrepreneur this may be the only thing you can control i.e. to create value for consumers. If you lost the value you would lose everything.

08

艾诚：在营销这一端，千聊的策略是非常激进的，在社群运营中让用户去拼客，有砍价，这还有分销。在互联网分销手段，会有被封杀的风险吗？

Gloria Ai: Qianliao adopts very proactive marketing strategies such as encouraging users to carpool bargain and distribute. Is it at the risk of being blocked due to distributing content on the internet?

朱峻修：千聊目前没出现这个风险。其实最底层还是在于你的内容产品，你的内容产品如果是OK的，你分销是没问题的，如果你的内容产品不OK，你的分销一定会带来问题。像千聊有开分销能力的内容，一定是我们平台做过品控的。另外，这里面表面是分销，实际上是一个消费者对于内容喜好的自然分发，这是一个很良性的，并不是一个利益的刺激。

Junxiu Zhu: There is no such risk at Qianliao. The core still lies in your content and product. If the content is ok there's no risk distributing content; if not it must be problematic. For all the content that can be distributed on Qianliao we have run quality control on it. Moreover it appears to be distributing but in essence it represents the sharing of consumers' liking of the content which is benign rather than a conflicting interest.

09

艾诚：你怎么看资本和创业之间的结合，你需要资本吗？需要什么样的资本？资本在什么地方是帮助的，什么地方是阻挠的？

Gloria Ai: What do you think of the combination of capital and entrepreneurship? Do you need capital? What kind of capital do you need? How can capital help you or obstruct you?

朱峻修：我现在越来越感受到的是知识服务有点像教育，它是一个长周期的事情，要把它培育到开花结果，要花很长时间。如果用三年来算，那可能很快这个事就会做得很小。

Junxiu Zhu: I'm starting to feel strongly that knowledge service is a bit like education. It has long-term cycles. Cultivating it to produce results takes a long time. If you spend three years on it it will be well established quickly.

艾诚：你用打算用几个三年来做？

Gloria Ai: How many three years do you plan to spend on it?

朱峻修：我用十年，我希望能够影响到我身边的人，让他们能够保持以用户价值为优先，这个是需要投入的，它需要你不断的坚持。所以如果说想要获得很大的投资回报和尊重，我觉得需要一个基本的理性的分析。

Junxiu Zhu: I intend to spend ten years on it. I hope that I can influence the people around me so that they can keep the user value as the priority. This is something that needs to be invested. You need to persist in it constantly. Therefore if you yearn to obtain high investment return and much respect I think it requires a fundamental rational analysis.

10

艾诚：但实际上在商业中一直有一个争议的问题，到底是你给客户他要的，还是你创造一个新东西引领着他的需要，像苹果就是典型的创造了新东西，引领别人需要，他成了一个巨头公司，但如果你仅仅是满足阶段性用户要的，你可能是个小而美的现金生意公司。在你的心目中，你的野心是什么？

Gloria Ai: But in fact there has always been a controversial issue in business. Is business about meeting consumers'demands or creating new things to lead their needs? For Apple apparently they created new products and demands and now they've become a giant. If you only meet the temporary demands from users you might only become a boutique firm with small cash flows. What's your ambition in your mind?

朱峻修：千聊肯定是试图去创造未来的流行。千聊的产品形态其实都是创新的，我们是第一家用工具形态来给大家做。千聊最开始并不擅长做内容，所以也没有人一开始就讲一个这样的愿景，所以我们就以擅长的东西来切入，但我们要做的事情肯定是一个未来能够流行的事情。

Junxiu Zhu: Qianliao is definitely trying to lead the trend in the future. The form of products of Qianliao is actually innovative. We're the first company to share paid knowledge in the form of tools. Qianliao was not good at content production at first which is why no one held the vision on it. Instead we broke through with something we're good at. Eventually what we do will absolutely be trendy in the future.